Senator Malardirri McCarthy speaks to Georgie Gardner, TODAY, and Ben Fordham, 2GB, about the Uluru climb closure and drought response
GEORGIE GARDNER, TODAY SHOW: Welcome back. Good to have your company this Friday morning. Now here's something we haven't seen before: these images yesterday at Uluru where hundreds of visitors lined up to climb the iconic landmark while they can. It has drawn comparisons to recent scenes on Mount Everest. Large queues are expected again today before a ban on the climb officially takes effect tomorrow out of respect to local Indigenous people who deem Uluru sacred. It's a decision that's divided opinion so to discuss it we're joined by Senator Malarndirri McCarthy from Canberra, and 2GB and 4BC's Ben Fordham. Good morning. Welcome to you both.
Malarndirri if I could begin with you. How does that make you feel seeing those images from yesterday and recent days where people have really scrambled to get there to climb the rock?
MALARNDIRRI MCCARTHY, NORTHERN TERRITORY SENATOR: Look it's certainly not a surprise Georgie. We've seen that perhaps over the last month or months really and I think like anything that's coming to an end, there's always a desire to want to touch and feel but from my personal perspective you know as a Yanyuwa Garrawa woman, I remember when the rock was handed back to the Anangu people and I was only a teenage girl at the time and I'm feeling enormously proud of them, I feel that they've been able to display the importance of Anangu story and culture and kujika and I just think that it's going to be a momentous day for the people who actually live and surround that very spiritual place.
GARDNER: I feel very blessed having been to Uluru myself, Ive been a couple of times and until you actually see it for yourself, you can't really understand how extraordinary it is. It's just just the most beautiful spiritual place and Ben obviously there are some who are suggesting that this is not the way to go, that it should be this tourist icon and people should be allowed to climb it. What are your thoughts?
BEN FORDHAM, 2GB AND 4BC: Well I think it's a natural thing that if you put a put a rock or a mountain in front of man or woman that man or woman is going to be fascinated with what's at the top of it. And I've never climbed it I've never been to Uluru which is a massive regret of mine--
GARDNER: It's not too late
FORDHAM: I know it's not too late. I know you've climbed it as a as a young person so I'd be interested to know what it's like when you when you get to the top of it. But some of the commentary around the people who are choosing to do it now. I've seen you know headlines around white privilege and things like that. I think that's a little bit unfair. I think it's more than a little bit unfair when you consider that there is a history here of people climbing this rock. There's now been a democratic process involving the parks council that's deemed that it's no longer to be climbed and I think we need to respect that democratic process. But equally I don't think it's a reasonable thing to shame people for doing something that's happened for thousands of years and the Senator will know better than better than I do but I gather was first done by Indigenous Australians. But you tell me Georgie what was it like going to the top?
GARDNER: It was extraordinary. I did it as a 16 year old and at that stage there wasn't a lot of this sort of discussion, well in fact, there wasn't as far as I knew there was no discussion about it. But absolutely now if I was to go I certainly wouldn't climb it but I'm there's a part of me that's really thrilled that I did have the experience because it is mind blowing and the view from the top was amazing but what I remember--
MCCARTHY: But Georgie you shouldn't feel ashamed of it, I mean seriously there are so many Australians and people from around the world who have done that and that's been the generosity of the Anangu over decades and I think really it's, you know, this is more about people coming together I think in Australia that we are acknowledging the importance of First Nations people in our place, in our history here in this country but around the world, and I think certainly when people gather together at Uluru for the closing of the climb ceremony it will be deeply spiritual and significant I think.
FORDHAM: I think Pauline Hanson's visit was probably a bit of a line in the sand moment as well and that I didn't appreciate how difficult the climb was and so when I'd read things about the number of people have passed away on the rock from falling or having accidents that seemed like a statistic on a piece of paper and then you have a look at had clearly a very difficult challenge that Pauline Hanson undertook and couldn't manage to do it, end up sliding back down on her backside. That probably rammed home that message about danger as well.
GARDNER: Yeah and take into consideration today when people are doing that last scramble to try and get to the top, I think temperatures are forecast around 40 degrees there today.
MCCARTHY: Well it's already 34 degrees there now, Georgie, and it's 5 a.m. in the morning so that gives an indication and safety has always been a real critical concern too.
GARDNER: Absolutely, absolutely. All right let's move on to talk about an issue that is also getting plenty of coverage and for good reason. All this week we have taken the Today Show to far-flung communities keenly feeling the effects of the drought and we have showcased the incredible spirit of those in the face of adversity. Today, news that drought declared farmers and businesses could be made exempt from income tax under a new plan being considered by the Government. Ben that's a measure I would assume everyone would welcome
FORDHAM: There's clearly more announcements coming from the Prime Minister Scott Morrison on the drought. He's, I think, to a degree, being somewhat motivated to make some further announcements because he's realised that the sentiment out there in the community and this is not something that's being felt in the bush. It's being felt in the big smoke as well. I think people are so sad about what they're seeing and we're seeing images of that sadness now that that's somehow manifest into anger at whoever's in charge and even though I'm sure Scott Morrison has been doing everything he possibly can to support people in drought ravaged areas people want more. Barnaby Joyce yesterday said on one another 1.3 billion dollars to be pumped into these communities. There's a suggestion that there could be a HECS style scheme. You know, we underwrite banks when banks are in trouble we underwrite students when students are starting their education so why can't we underwrite farmers who are doing it tough in the drought? So watch this space, I think the Prime Minister's got more announcements to make.
GARDNER: Well Malarndirri the overwhelming message from those directly affected by this drought is that it hasn't been given the sense of emergency that we see when there's for example floods or bush fires there's been such a slow uptake of measures that we're now finally starting to see unveiled. What are your thoughts on that? The inaction?
MCCARTHY: Sure Georgie, no, you're right. We've just had Senate estimates here in Canberra this weekend and certainly in inquiries that I've been involved with, you know, farmers people from regional, rural Australia have given evidence and Ben's right you know they've been issues around education. You know the ICPA [the Isolated Childrens Parents Association] for example want so much more support for their children, I think there's some really practical measures that can actually happen now. You don't need a gathering of people and more meetings and more meetings. People out there are desperate they need action now you know the mental health worries Georgie, the suicides and attempted suicide rates that keep coming through in our inquiries is absolutely heartbreaking and I think you know there are very clear things that can be done now. The money that's being talked about in the billions but it's not landing in simple resources like mental health programs like support for families like increasing support for the ICPA - and those children who are going away for school like just some really practical measures that could be done right now
GARDNER: Absolutely and I think also people are screaming out to put politics aside. This is bipartisan.
MCCARTHY: Absolutely. And we've offered that.
FORDHAM: We also shouldn't pretend it's easy you know. I mean I think sometimes people -- and we all do -- when you're not in a position of power it's very easy to say "Ah come on why aren't they doing more?" Ultimately it's not raining and there's no rain on the horizon. The rain is what we need. The rain is the only thing that will break the drought and everything else is needed to look after people in the meantime. But let's not kid ourselves the one thing we need can't be delivered from any politician.
GARDNER: Well said, alright we will be speaking to our politicians a little shortly actually on the show. We're putting a lot of these things to them both. Thank you both very much for today. Have a happy weekend.
TRANSCRIPT -RADIO INTERVIEW -TODAY SHOW -FRIDAY 25 OCTOBER 2019
